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	<title>Comments on: Trying MonoDevelop On OS X, Part Two</title>
	<atom:link href="http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/trying-monodevelop-on-os-x-part-two/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/trying-monodevelop-on-os-x-part-two/</link>
	<description>Trying to walk that thin line between intelligence and ignorance</description>
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		<title>By: Davy Brion</title>
		<link>http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/trying-monodevelop-on-os-x-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-23297</link>
		<dc:creator>Davy Brion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-23297</guid>
		<description>@Michael

i can certainly understand that behavioral compatibility isn&#039;t easy, though i would prefer it that the BCL classes are fully compatible before new API&#039;s (like Silverlight) are implemented. The same effort that goes into implementing new API&#039;s might be better spent making sure that what is already there actually works.  If both the BCL classes and new API&#039;s have incompatibilities, then you can&#039;t really expect people to use Mono for real stuff. Sure, people can try to work around those bugs, but they really shouldn&#039;t have to.  

as for filing bug reports... i&#039;d do that if the software was actually usable for me and the bugs i&#039;d run into weren&#039;t preventing me from getting anything done with it.  At this point, i can&#039;t use it at all for the stuff that i&#039;m working on. I&#039;d have to spend time on filing bug reports, creating samples that reproduce the problem, and then wait a few weeks/months before i can try again?  I once filed a bug report (bug number 62293, though i can&#039;t find the details of it anymore) on a regex memory leak in Mono a couple of years ago with a reproducible sample and it was ignored for a long time.  Just as your time and resources are limited, so is mine and i prefer to spend it on stuff that doesn&#039;t feel like a waste of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael</p>
<p>i can certainly understand that behavioral compatibility isn&#8217;t easy, though i would prefer it that the BCL classes are fully compatible before new API&#8217;s (like Silverlight) are implemented. The same effort that goes into implementing new API&#8217;s might be better spent making sure that what is already there actually works.  If both the BCL classes and new API&#8217;s have incompatibilities, then you can&#8217;t really expect people to use Mono for real stuff. Sure, people can try to work around those bugs, but they really shouldn&#8217;t have to.  </p>
<p>as for filing bug reports&#8230; i&#8217;d do that if the software was actually usable for me and the bugs i&#8217;d run into weren&#8217;t preventing me from getting anything done with it.  At this point, i can&#8217;t use it at all for the stuff that i&#8217;m working on. I&#8217;d have to spend time on filing bug reports, creating samples that reproduce the problem, and then wait a few weeks/months before i can try again?  I once filed a bug report (bug number 62293, though i can&#8217;t find the details of it anymore) on a regex memory leak in Mono a couple of years ago with a reproducible sample and it was ignored for a long time.  Just as your time and resources are limited, so is mine and i prefer to spend it on stuff that doesn&#8217;t feel like a waste of time.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hutchinson</title>
		<link>http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/trying-monodevelop-on-os-x-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-23289</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hutchinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-23289</guid>
		<description>Hey, thanks for taking a look at MonoDevelop again. We always appreciate getting user feedback. I have a few comments on various points from your post.

* MD&#039;s C# formatting options are &quot;policies&quot;, which means they&#039;re per-solution (and can be overridden per-project). You can set the default format in the &quot;Default policies&quot; dialog. The formatting options panel in your screenshot is a vestigial panel for the smart indenter options that hasn&#039;t been merged with the new system.

* When complaining that Mono doesn&#039;t behave exactly like .NET, please consider that Mono is a cleanly reverse-engineered implementation of a HUGE framework, on top of different operating systems than it was designed for, and DOES try to be bug-compatible. However, complex software can turn up bugs or behavioural incompatibilities from time, and they&#039;ll only get fixed if you file bug reports. It&#039;s an open-source project, and is dependent on such contributions.

* To be fair to VS, the main reason the &quot;add reference&quot; dialog starts up so slowly is the COM tab, which MD doesn&#039;t have. No idea why they didn&#039;t background-load that tab&#039;s contents though.

* The soft debugger is new since October, and there are  still a few issues. Please file bug reports for any issues you encounter.

* If MD hangs, please issue a &quot;kill -QUIT&quot; against the MD process, which will cause it to write stacktraces of all threads to the MD log, then file the log in a bug report.

* The version of GTK+ that&#039;s bundled with Mono on Mac (a heavily patched 2.17.4) has a number of issues, and losing track of mouse grabs is one of them. We&#039;re in the process of rebasing the GTK patches on top of 2.18.x and trying to make sure there aren&#039;t any regressions.

* We dogfood MonoDevelop 100% of the time when working on MonoDevelop, and it has over 600kloc, so is certainly a nontrivial app. It also works well on .NET on Windows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, thanks for taking a look at MonoDevelop again. We always appreciate getting user feedback. I have a few comments on various points from your post.</p>
<p>* MD&#8217;s C# formatting options are &#8220;policies&#8221;, which means they&#8217;re per-solution (and can be overridden per-project). You can set the default format in the &#8220;Default policies&#8221; dialog. The formatting options panel in your screenshot is a vestigial panel for the smart indenter options that hasn&#8217;t been merged with the new system.</p>
<p>* When complaining that Mono doesn&#8217;t behave exactly like .NET, please consider that Mono is a cleanly reverse-engineered implementation of a HUGE framework, on top of different operating systems than it was designed for, and DOES try to be bug-compatible. However, complex software can turn up bugs or behavioural incompatibilities from time, and they&#8217;ll only get fixed if you file bug reports. It&#8217;s an open-source project, and is dependent on such contributions.</p>
<p>* To be fair to VS, the main reason the &#8220;add reference&#8221; dialog starts up so slowly is the COM tab, which MD doesn&#8217;t have. No idea why they didn&#8217;t background-load that tab&#8217;s contents though.</p>
<p>* The soft debugger is new since October, and there are  still a few issues. Please file bug reports for any issues you encounter.</p>
<p>* If MD hangs, please issue a &#8220;kill -QUIT&#8221; against the MD process, which will cause it to write stacktraces of all threads to the MD log, then file the log in a bug report.</p>
<p>* The version of GTK+ that&#8217;s bundled with Mono on Mac (a heavily patched 2.17.4) has a number of issues, and losing track of mouse grabs is one of them. We&#8217;re in the process of rebasing the GTK patches on top of 2.18.x and trying to make sure there aren&#8217;t any regressions.</p>
<p>* We dogfood MonoDevelop 100% of the time when working on MonoDevelop, and it has over 600kloc, so is certainly a nontrivial app. It also works well on .NET on Windows.</p>
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		<title>By: Davy Brion</title>
		<link>http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/trying-monodevelop-on-os-x-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-23281</link>
		<dc:creator>Davy Brion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-23281</guid>
		<description>well, the issues with MonoDevelop are things that they really should&#039;ve noticed themselves after about 30 minutes of using it with something other than a typical Hello World application

as for the issues with Mono itself, that&#039;s another story...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, the issues with MonoDevelop are things that they really should&#8217;ve noticed themselves after about 30 minutes of using it with something other than a typical Hello World application</p>
<p>as for the issues with Mono itself, that&#8217;s another story&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/trying-monodevelop-on-os-x-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-23279</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2096#comment-23279</guid>
		<description>Just wanted to point out that had they not released, then you might not have given them a new test case! =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to point out that had they not released, then you might not have given them a new test case! =)</p>
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