Comments on: I’m Not In It For The Money http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/ inquisitive: adjective. given to inquiry, research, or asking questions; eager for knowledge; intellectually curious Tue, 22 May 2012 17:40:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Grant Palinhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23230 Grant Palin Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:05:44 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23230 Right on Davy. I'm mostly of the same mind: it's about the continuing education, trying new ideas and taking on new challenges. The money aspect is a necessary evil, as money makes the world go round. I'd happily work for a lower pay rate - as long as it was at least enough to get by on - if it meant I could continue self-development on the job. Right on Davy. I’m mostly of the same mind: it’s about the continuing education, trying new ideas and taking on new challenges. The money aspect is a necessary evil, as money makes the world go round. I’d happily work for a lower pay rate – as long as it was at least enough to get by on – if it meant I could continue self-development on the job.

]]> By: Davy Brionhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23226 Davy Brion Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:51:33 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23226 @Dhananjayi wouldn't assume that working for google, microsoft, apple or thoughtworks is all great... i've heard a lot of bad stuff about working for either one of those, with Google being the one you hear the least negativity aboutas for following the ayende model... i'm pretty happy with the way things are right now, so why change a good thing? also, his model includes releasing commercial software, and as i mentioned i'm not really interested in that @Dhananjay

i wouldn’t assume that working for google, microsoft, apple or thoughtworks is all great… i’ve heard a lot of bad stuff about working for either one of those, with Google being the one you hear the least negativity about

as for following the ayende model… i’m pretty happy with the way things are right now, so why change a good thing? also, his model includes releasing commercial software, and as i mentioned i’m not really interested in that

]]> By: Dhananjay Goyanihttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23225 Dhananjay Goyani Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:15:11 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23225 I don't completely buy your view but really appreciate your intention and the spirit.BIG companies = BIG paychecks = MORE craps. Well, not necessarily its true always. Think about Google, Microsoft, Apple and ThoughtWorks.One open question - why don't you follow Ayende model then - a good balance of $$ and interests. I don’t completely buy your view but really appreciate your intention and the spirit.

BIG companies = BIG paychecks = MORE craps. Well, not necessarily its true always. Think about Google, Microsoft, Apple and ThoughtWorks.

One open question – why don’t you follow Ayende model then – a good balance of $$ and interests.

]]> By: Davy Brionhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23219 Davy Brion Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:19:33 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23219 of course every company exists to make a profit... the question is: how much are you willing to maximize it, while fully realizing at what expense you're doing so of course every company exists to make a profit… the question is: how much are you willing to maximize it, while fully realizing at what expense you’re doing so

]]> By: kilfourhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23217 kilfour Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:14:37 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23217 Well, ... I do agree with most of the post, and having worked at the office you're working right now, I'd say it's a pretty interesting company, that likes to keep up a rarely seen high standard of code quality. And I definitely agree that more money does not equal 'bettering one's self'. But there's just one thing : <i>There’s a reason why those companies have a lot of money, and it’s because everything is about the money.</i> ... it's always about the money. People have to get paid. The definition of a company is that it's about the money. However idealistic the people in charge, the prime directive is always : 'Make a profit'. I think that your company has realized (and quite soon, compared to a lot of other companies) that producing high quality code is in the long run just more economically viable than going for the quick buck. They've decided to invest in people because that's what IT-shops should invest in. It's their only capital. And even though I have personal issues with some (well just the one really) people in charge in your company, I don't doubt the idealism with which the company was founded. Just as the fall-out from 9/11 weeded out a lot of IT-companies that were just acting as middleman, selling contracts instead of knowledge, the current financial crisis has allready had a serious impact on IT-shops with a similar short-term vision. Eventually we'll end up with a healthy bussiness, although I personally think a social bloodbath and a serious reorganization of our society looks inevitable, bit of a communist at heart aswell I suppose. I guess I'm just too much of a bittered paranoid cynic. A related example : I used to rely solely on my income as a musician and have quit more than one band right before it hit the 'slightly-bigger-than-totally-unnoticed'-time for the same reasons mentioned here, but try living in a squat amongst a bunch of homeless junkies for a while, same politics, ... it's always about the money. Being able to live comfortably just makes one able to ignore this fact, which is probably why I'm a developer right now ;-). Well, …
I do agree with most of the post, and having worked at the office you’re working right now, I’d say it’s a pretty interesting company, that likes to keep up a rarely seen high standard of code quality.
And I definitely agree that more money does not equal ‘bettering one’s self’.
But there’s just one thing :
There’s a reason why those companies have a lot of money, and it’s because everything is about the money.
… it’s always about the money.
People have to get paid. The definition of a company is that it’s about the money. However idealistic the people in charge, the prime directive is always : ‘Make a profit’.
I think that your company has realized (and quite soon, compared to a lot of other companies) that producing high quality code is in the long run just more economically viable than going for the quick buck. They’ve decided to invest in people because that’s what IT-shops should invest in. It’s their only capital. And even though I have personal issues with some (well just the one really) people in charge in your company, I don’t doubt the idealism with which the company was founded.
Just as the fall-out from 9/11 weeded out a lot of IT-companies that were just acting as middleman, selling contracts instead of knowledge, the current financial crisis has allready had a serious impact on IT-shops with a similar short-term vision. Eventually we’ll end up with a healthy bussiness, although I personally think a social bloodbath and a serious reorganization of our society looks inevitable, bit of a communist at heart aswell I suppose.
I guess I’m just too much of a bittered paranoid cynic.
A related example :
I used to rely solely on my income as a musician and have quit more than one band right before it hit the ‘slightly-bigger-than-totally-unnoticed’-time for the same reasons mentioned here, but try living in a squat amongst a bunch of homeless junkies for a while, same politics, … it’s always about the money.
Being able to live comfortably just makes one able to ignore this fact, which is probably why I’m a developer right now ;-) .

]]> By: kurt schroederhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23216 kurt schroeder Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:43:04 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23216 I’m on a roll I guess. I hope you don’t mind. It’s on the subject of giving credit where it due. Nothing encourages a junior developer more than when you publicly admit they showed you something you did not know. The best case is when you admit it publicly to your boss. It needs to be true, and not an empty embellishment, but it will encourage a greater sense of discovery and the importance of sharing. It encourages a worker more than money or an empty title. Likewise nothing discourages a junior developer more than discounting their discovery simply because you already knew about whatever it was they found. I’m on a roll I guess. I hope you don’t mind. It’s on the subject of giving credit where it due. Nothing encourages a junior developer more than when you publicly admit they showed you something you did not know. The best case is when you admit it publicly to your boss. It needs to be true, and not an empty embellishment, but it will encourage a greater sense of discovery and the importance of sharing. It encourages a worker more than money or an empty title. Likewise nothing discourages a junior developer more than discounting their discovery simply because you already knew about whatever it was they found.

]]> By: kurt schroederhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23215 kurt schroeder Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:11:26 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23215 I’ve got a little more pragmatic view that I hope in no way discounts your meaning, but before I get to that… My name on most sites is “YankeeImperialistDog” this is fun self mockery of my USA citizenship. Calling someone a dog in some cultures is the worst offence and my user name was used very often as an insult. I’ll not argue politics, but I have to say I do take great exception to cultures that consider dogs the lowest form of life. I’ll take any dog over most people I know. As an American, well, that just suggests money, money, money. It’s often true I’ll not argue that! In truth I often say I’m a pure communist at heart. I give my knowledge whenever I can. My offerings are quite humble compared to what I’ve seen on your blog, but I would like to think we are of the same spirit. My emails often end with “Share the Knowledge, I want all the help I can get and I hope you do too!” I really appreciate people like you who offer knowledge freely. When I have it I like to do the same. The flip side is the part a lot of people don’t get, the more people know how to do what you do the easier it gets to branch out and do something new. Job security based on hording your knowledge is death sentence to your creativity! I see it a lot. That and co-workers who feel threatened by another so they spend more time trying to shore up their place rather than making the whole greater than the sum of its parts. I’ve had my frank honesty used against me once or twice. If I don’t know something I say so, but it doesn’t mean I can’t learn it. I figure the sooner I admit that the sooner that changes. Now the pragmatic part, if a company is not making money it really can’t survive. I doubt you’ll disagree. There has to be some consideration for things that will keep the lights on. I need to temper that with the realities of our own venture EverybodySafe.com. I wish a year ago I knew what I do now thanks to people like you and I’m rewriting it. In the spirit you wrote about we’ve all put our careers on hold for about 2 years now, because we believe in this. Were it not for people like you it might not have happened. We could never have afforded to pay you for what you freely made available. We could use a little capital, but our hearts are in this project. It’s what we want to do. Thanks. I’ve got a little more pragmatic view that I hope in no way discounts your meaning, but before I get to that… My name on most sites is “YankeeImperialistDog” this is fun self mockery of my USA citizenship. Calling someone a dog in some cultures is the worst offence and my user name was used very often as an insult. I’ll not argue politics, but I have to say I do take great exception to cultures that consider dogs the lowest form of life. I’ll take any dog over most people I know. As an American, well, that just suggests money, money, money. It’s often true I’ll not argue that! In truth I often say I’m a pure communist at heart. I give my knowledge whenever I can. My offerings are quite humble compared to what I’ve seen on your blog, but I would like to think we are of the same spirit. My emails often end with “Share the Knowledge, I want all the help I can get and I hope you do too!”
I really appreciate people like you who offer knowledge freely. When I have it I like to do the same. The flip side is the part a lot of people don’t get, the more people know how to do what you do the easier it gets to branch out and do something new. Job security based on hording your knowledge is death sentence to your creativity! I see it a lot. That and co-workers who feel threatened by another so they spend more time trying to shore up their place rather than making the whole greater than the sum of its parts. I’ve had my frank honesty used against me once or twice. If I don’t know something I say so, but it doesn’t mean I can’t learn it. I figure the sooner I admit that the sooner that changes.
Now the pragmatic part, if a company is not making money it really can’t survive. I doubt you’ll disagree. There has to be some consideration for things that will keep the lights on. I need to temper that with the realities of our own venture EverybodySafe.com. I wish a year ago I knew what I do now thanks to people like you and I’m rewriting it. In the spirit you wrote about we’ve all put our careers on hold for about 2 years now, because we believe in this. Were it not for people like you it might not have happened. We could never have afforded to pay you for what you freely made available. We could use a little capital, but our hearts are in this project. It’s what we want to do.
Thanks.

]]> By: Matt Klinkerhttp://davybrion.com/blog/2009/12/im-not-in-it-for-the-money/comment-page-1/#comment-23214 Matt Klinker Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:26:52 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=2047#comment-23214 Couldn't have worded it better myself, I only wish more people in this field had a similar mindset. Couldn’t have worded it better myself, I only wish more people in this field had a similar mindset.

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