Comments on: We All Write Bad Code http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/ Trying to walk that thin line between intelligence and ignorance Thu, 29 Jul 2010 21:01:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Eric http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-22932 Eric Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:23:09 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-22932 @Gregory I work in a shop with tight, often to the point of being unrealistic, deadlines as well. We struggle with it and certainly have to make pragmatic decisions. The old adages of avoiding gold plating and total cost of ownership aside, I am often struck with the dilemma: could I actually have written that code faster <strong>with</strong> a test? And how would I measure that? I've worked on projects that I have been proud of in terms of quality as well. The ivory tower preaches that you can go faster in the long run with tests. I question the amount of test coverage that actually gives you optimal productivity for a given project. Different approaches to testing have more payoff and less maintenance cost than others in many situations. This is something to be aware of when reading about testing dogma. 100% code coverage done the wrong way can be an absolute nightmare. Sometimes I edit and pray. Most of the time I write at least some tests no matter the time pressure. It is amazing how much time you can waste doing repetitive tasks... Testingly yours, With that important grain of salt, Eric @Gregory

I work in a shop with tight, often to the point of being unrealistic, deadlines as well. We struggle with it and certainly have to make pragmatic decisions.
The old adages of avoiding gold plating and total cost of ownership aside, I am often struck with the dilemma: could I actually have written that code faster with a test? And how would I measure that?

I’ve worked on projects that I have been proud of in terms of quality as well. The ivory tower preaches that you can go faster in the long run with tests. I question the amount of test coverage that actually gives you optimal productivity for a given project. Different approaches to testing have more payoff and less maintenance cost than others in many situations. This is something to be aware of when reading about testing dogma. 100% code coverage done the wrong way can be an absolute nightmare.

Sometimes I edit and pray. Most of the time I write at least some tests no matter the time pressure. It is amazing how much time you can waste doing repetitive tasks…

Testingly yours,
With that important grain of salt,
Eric

]]> By: Gregory Kornblum http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8183 Gregory Kornblum Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:43:22 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8183 Sadly I have been working with small groups of developers and deadlines that are 10% of the actual time it would take to do it right for almost 15 years. It pains me to write the way I have had to yet at the same time I have grown to write better code faster. It's just the community does not make it any easier on me. Even with amazing IDEs now I should consider following design patterns and more specifically use the ones that make writing tests easier, tests that are also code. It's a friggin' joke. People say but if you do so you can end up having to write less code. Maybe if you have the architectural time but there are people like me who just can't keep up with the crap people are feeding CIOs/CTOs nowadays. Yet I still try to do all this within the same tight deadlines, troubleshooting issues that only boil down to incorrect usage, etc... But I will say one thing, I will take this over working for some public, fortune 500 company who will lay you off to keep stock prices from falling. I've made it through the "dot com callapse" and I am making it in the current "credit crunch" as we are still hiring, not firing. So if I am forced to write bad code to make sure my family is well off and stable so be it. Sadly I have been working with small groups of developers and deadlines that are 10% of the actual time it would take to do it right for almost 15 years. It pains me to write the way I have had to yet at the same time I have grown to write better code faster. It’s just the community does not make it any easier on me. Even with amazing IDEs now I should consider following design patterns and more specifically use the ones that make writing tests easier, tests that are also code. It’s a friggin’ joke. People say but if you do so you can end up having to write less code. Maybe if you have the architectural time but there are people like me who just can’t keep up with the crap people are feeding CIOs/CTOs nowadays. Yet I still try to do all this within the same tight deadlines, troubleshooting issues that only boil down to incorrect usage, etc…

But I will say one thing, I will take this over working for some public, fortune 500 company who will lay you off to keep stock prices from falling. I’ve made it through the “dot com callapse” and I am making it in the current “credit crunch” as we are still hiring, not firing. So if I am forced to write bad code to make sure my family is well off and stable so be it.

]]> By: Ahmad Sheikh http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8153 Ahmad Sheikh Mon, 26 Jan 2009 18:06:04 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8153 Yet i didn't read you article but after having the name of article i m writing that me is agree on this point to some extent. Yet i didn’t read you article but after having the name of article i m writing that me is agree on this point to some extent.

]]> By: Laila http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8141 Laila Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:39:26 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8141 @Davy: "If management ignores the advice, they’re going to have to live with the consequences sooner or later. Whether they want to or not." => I was thinking, can you live with that? Then I read the last line of your comment :) @Davy: “If management ignores the advice, they’re going to have to live with the consequences sooner or later. Whether they want to or not.” => I was thinking, can you live with that? Then I read the last line of your comment :)

]]> By: Davy Brion http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8139 Davy Brion Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:29:05 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8139 @Laila If management ignores the advice, they're going to have to live with the consequences sooner or later. Whether they want to or not. I'd look for a job with better management. @Laila

If management ignores the advice, they’re going to have to live with the consequences sooner or later. Whether they want to or not. I’d look for a job with better management.

]]> By: Laila http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8137 Laila Mon, 26 Jan 2009 10:55:17 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8137 @Igor: I wouldn't even say <i>good code</i>, I'd say <i>better code</i>, since you can probably even improve the last code you wrote. Whenever I reopen code (even if it's last week code) I wrote, I automatically begin refactoring it. @Davy: What if management ignores your advice? @Igor: I wouldn’t even say good code, I’d say better code, since you can probably even improve the last code you wrote.
Whenever I reopen code (even if it’s last week code) I wrote, I automatically begin refactoring it.

@Davy: What if management ignores your advice?

]]> By: Davy Brion http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8095 Davy Brion Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:01:33 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8095 @Igor good point :) @Eric you're right. i think it's important to be honest about it with the sponsors up front. If you're going to have to take some shortcuts you probably should tell them about it up front and warn them that it will need to get cleaned up ASAP. If they choose to ignore that advice... well that's a whole different story then. @Igor

good point :)

@Eric

you’re right. i think it’s important to be honest about it with the sponsors up front. If you’re going to have to take some shortcuts you probably should tell them about it up front and warn them that it will need to get cleaned up ASAP. If they choose to ignore that advice… well that’s a whole different story then.

]]> By: Eric http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8094 Eric Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:49:57 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8094 The ubiquitous trade-off - to write bad code or not? The problem isn't so much in remembering to address the resultant accrued technical debt, but in convincing the people who foot the bill that there is such a thing. The ubiquitous trade-off – to write bad code or not? The problem isn’t so much in remembering to address the resultant accrued technical debt, but in convincing the people who foot the bill that there is such a thing.

]]> By: Igor Brejc http://davybrion.com/blog/2009/01/we-all-write-bad-code/comment-page-1/#comment-8083 Igor Brejc Sun, 25 Jan 2009 06:57:52 +0000 http://davybrion.com/blog/?p=877#comment-8083 Knowing that you write bad code is a virtue in itself. After all, how would you know your code is bad if you haven't produced any <i>good</i> code? ;) Knowing that you write bad code is a virtue in itself. After all, how would you know your code is bad if you haven’t produced any good code? ;)

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